Curse

jaeharys targaryen · Jan 01, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I have never monked in HA, and i am a moderately fail r1 HAer, i just don't like it much. But, one thing i know is thta monks in HA use channeling because everyone is so grouped up. So, what i wanna know, is, how effective is it, really? Is energy not a problem for HA monks, or what?

thx.

M I D G E T S · Jan 01, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Channeling gives more than enough energy back.

Tab · Jan 01, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Channeling gives you adequate energy management on normal maps and insane energy management on altar maps.

dies like fish · Jan 01, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Pets and Spirits make +1's fly across my screen.

Yanman.be · Jan 01, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Not casting while under channeling is fail.

Zabe · Jan 01, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Doesn't the fact that you can observe matches from HoH where monks get more energy back from casting spirit bond and rof than they use to the spell itself tell you that its the best energymanagement ever. And makes HA monking easy as hell, just spam rof on recharge!

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Jan 01, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Doesn't the fact that you can observe matches from HoH where monks get more energy back from casting spirit bond and rof than they use to the spell itself tell you that its the best energymanagement ever. And makes HA monking easy as hell, just spam rof on recharge!

More like just spam every skill on recharge

zwei2stein · Jan 01, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh [prefession]-zorz

More like just spam every skill on recharge

That makes mesmering in HA easy

TaCktiX · Jan 01, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Whenever I get a good "spot" on a match, I say that I'm getting really good "Channeling bombs" off. That's when I'm seeing 5, 6, or 7 +1's in a normal 8v8. Life is good when you're not only casting for free, you're getting paid to cast.

elektra_lucia · Jan 01, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

And your spirit bond is recharging such that you can't save a spike.

On a serious note, brilliant skill for energy but sometimes it is not needed... For the prot monk, channelling I find more useful than heal infact (sometimes). Partly because I know to prot myself, which is a part of channeling...

If you go channel tanking, but you don't have SoA on you, sometimes you can get into great danger (sometimes not so, obviously).

It just depends on the situation. If you face icy vein spike, there's no reason NOT to channel tank. =D.

The only problem is when you get used to it, also... Lines cant be so clear, and people can ball up more when you're in the frontline. It makes pre protting hard when people gather.

Div · Jan 01, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Channeling gives you energy, duh.

It also makes you play like a bad monk.

Learning to not rely on channeling is the only way to not suck. But then again, if all you want to do is be r12 and still suck at monking (or r14 and still suck at the game), go ahead and use channeling on your HB. Might as well take infuse with that too, since you know, a 3/8 second 300 heal other isn't enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Not casting while under channeling is fail.

No, you fail. Channeling for sins is bad

TheOneMephisto · Jan 01, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Channeling is an absolutely ridiculous energy engine in HA, something that almost every player will utilize because of how overpowered it is, this is hard to dispute.

However, it also encourages bad play, this is also hard to dispute.

So use it if you want to win, but be very careful that you don't absolutely rely on it and watch the bad habits (cough positioning, cough spamming skills) that it can encourage.

elektra_lucia · Jan 01, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

holymasamune -

I agree with a lot of your argument but the thing about infuse in my opinion is a bit over the top. I used to think like that but you have to look past UW. Sometimes in HoH, if two teams spike the ghostly and heal other is recharging or, you simply want to sac yourself to death for the timer. Infuse can be real nice =).

It really is highly debatable as to whether infuse is needed BUT it is really not clean cut as you may think.

I also don't agree that channelling MAKES you play like a bad monk. It influences it, if you let it.

Legendary Shiz · Jan 01, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Channeling gets used because its that good in the situation you're playing in. However, like Divine said it promotes bad positioning and lets you play without worrying about your energy. Not having to manage your energy is going to put you at a SEVER disadvantage when you get in a situation where you have to (GvG for instance).

So when he says it makes you bad, he's in a sense right. Channeling lets you red bar a lot because you don't really have to conserve energy.

All in all, it's pretty dumb NOT to use in HA. Unless you're being stubborn like I'm sure Divine is ^^.

6am3 Fana71c · Jan 02, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

And makes HA monking easy as hell, just spam rof on recharge!

Uh...what? Energy is just one of the factors you have to take care of. The fact that you can use your spells with..."more freedom" in HA doesn't make you good monk.

Div · Jan 02, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

holymasamune -

I agree with a lot of your argument but the thing about infuse in my opinion is a bit over the top. I used to think like that but you have to look past UW.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I only farm UW so I don't know what it's like in the other maps

Sure, if your prot monk is like most of the bad HA players out there, go ahead and take infuse for that 700 point heal on the ghostly when holding. But if you can trust your prot partner to throw a spirit bond or whatnot after the initial enchantment removal, a heal other is often enough. With two teams spiking a ghostly, you're either
a) not going to catch the spike anyways
b) overhealing the ghostly too early and the afterspike kills the ghost anyways
or c) healing the ghost at the perfect time as it gets down to about ~200 health.

In both a and b, the ghost dies. In c, if you have a good prot monk, you can heal other it back up to ~500, the ghost will have prots to keep its bar from going down, and you can conserve an extra 10 energy or so by not having to heal yourself back up or exposing yourself to a fake spike.

At least that's my reasoning. I'm not saying infuse itself is bad, but it certainly is an extra burden if your prot monk is fairly competent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

All in all, it's pretty dumb NOT to use in HA. Unless you're being stubborn like I'm sure Divine is ^^.

I've tried that bar with both channeling and GoLE. It simply works better with the glyph, since you take less damage from not needing to have trash positioning and you also get a better view of the playing field, letting you heal efficiently without wasting skills/overhealing. As a result, you won't get caught in a situation where you used a heal other right before two teams spike your ghostly in elektra lucia's situation. If they're two spike-capable teams and you use heal other to redbar, then your ghostly deserves to be spiked down.

Rohan · Jan 02, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Energy should never be a problem if you have channeling up. It promotes bad positioning and spamming of skills (Well I haven't HAed in forever but I remember against Zergway I'd sit in a negative set and just spam my skills to counter the 687867 copies of Fear Me.

Monking in HA will never ever teach you energy management simply because there isn't a need. I honestly believe that monking in RA/TA had a bigger impact on me monking in gvg...well that and being a Tommy fanboy

TheHaxor · Jan 02, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Learning to not rely on channeling is the only way to not suck. But then again, if all you want to do is be r12 and still suck at monking (or r14 and still suck at the game), go ahead and use channeling on your HB. Might as well take infuse with that too, since you know, a 3/8 second 300 heal other isn't enough.

It's fine if you know how to play monk well. Playing with channeling is not going to change how you play everywhere else if you know how to play well.

I agree that infuse is pretty bad on a HB bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I've tried that bar with both channeling and GoLE. It simply works better with the glyph, since you take less damage from not needing to have trash positioning and you also get a better view of the playing field, letting you heal efficiently without wasting skills/overhealing. As a result, you won't get caught in a situation where you used a heal other right before two teams spike your ghostly in elektra lucia's situation. If they're two spike-capable teams and you use heal other to redbar, then your ghostly deserves to be spiked down.

I agree that glyph can be just as effective. I used to run glyph all the time several months ago. However, I found that channeling was too effective on 3 way maps not to use (HoH and kill count back then). Since those were important maps I ended up switching to channeling and had more success on them. Having the great positioning is nice, but even then you can be forced into having bad position by the other team because of the nature of the maps (lots of chokes, small).

Overall, channeling is the better choice.

BTW all you people citing "spamming skills" as a positive are bad =/

Ensign · Jan 02, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Channeling lets you spam Orison under pressure on a HB Monk. Glyph of Lesser Energy lets you continue to squeeze out Heal Party. I'll take the latter over the former in a clear majority of situations in HA. My complaint with virtually every pottytrained-for-halls Healer's Boon Monk is that they spam 5e heals too much and don't use Heal Party enough. If you can keep pumping out Heal Parties with Channeling, more power to you, but my experience is that Channeling-HB Monks hit low energy and do nothing but spam cast 5e skills from then on.

elektra_lucia · Jan 02, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Yeah, I'm sorry. I only farm UW so I don't know what it's like in the other maps

Sure, if your prot monk is like most of the bad HA players out there, go ahead and take infuse for that 700 point heal on the ghostly when holding. But if you can trust your prot partner to throw a spirit bond or whatnot after the initial enchantment removal, a heal other is often enough. With two teams spiking a ghostly, you're either
a) not going to catch the spike anyways
b) overhealing the ghostly too early and the afterspike kills the ghost anyways
or c) healing the ghost at the perfect time as it gets down to about ~200 health.

In both a and b, the ghost dies. In c, if you have a good prot monk, you can heal other it back up to ~500, the ghost will have prots to keep its bar from going down, and you can conserve an extra 10 energy or so by not having to heal yourself back up or exposing yourself to a fake spike.

At least that's my reasoning. I'm not saying infuse itself is bad, but it certainly is an extra burden if your prot monk is fairly competent.

It's a shame that you can argue ONLY in a way that insults HA players; however, since for you to understand something I guess I will do the same (some what hypocritical but whatever).

Even if your prot monk is bad like most of the prot monks from top 100 teams in GVG at the moment you still will find problems in protting... Enchant removal WILL be a problem. Some teams do in fact use well of profane. People still run thumper shit with OoA.

For B, you can infuse again. With healers boon it's still going to be quite a lot of healing. You won't have to worry about the recharge, like you would with heal other. Also, one team may spike the ghost. You heal other him. Then as it's recharging, other team spikes. In this case, infuse is safer/better.

Quote:

and you can conserve an extra 10 energy or so by not having to heal yourself back up or exposing yourself to a fake spike.

Energy is never a problem with king of the hill for example when you are an infuser. You can just heal the ghostly up, go into high set, infuse a ton. Infuse helps you die on the timer. It rocks =D.

Quote:

I've tried that bar with both channeling and GoLE. It simply works better with the glyph, since you take less damage from not needing to have trash positioning and you also get a better view of the playing field, letting you heal efficiently without wasting skills/overhealing. As a result, you won't get caught in a situation where you used a heal other right before two teams spike your ghostly in elektra lucia's situation. If they're two spike-capable teams and you use heal other to redbar, then your ghostly deserves to be spiked down.

... you have to stand on the shrine for cap points ....

With channelling, you can still heal/prot yourself a tonne...

Quote:

Channeling lets you spam Orison under pressure on a HB Monk. Glyph of Lesser Energy lets you continue to squeeze out Heal Party. I'll take the latter over the former in a clear majority of situations in HA. My complaint with virtually every pottytrained-for-halls Healer's Boon Monk is that they spam 5e heals too much and don't use Heal Party enough. If you can keep pumping out Heal Parties with Channeling, more power to you, but my experience is that Channeling-HB Monks hit low energy and do nothing but spam cast 5e skills from then on.

Where exactly would you have to heal party a tonne? A load of eles? Go into high set. Three team maps? It's 16 players... You can heal party a tonne... =p.

I don't get this whole insult HA players either. Let's face it, the MAJORITY of GVG players are absolutely terrible. Much more people GVG than HA...

As far as teams for HA. lol...

I can think of very few guilds that played balance and not some lame shite. I can think of sOap, they reached r33 in like a week. With little/no GVG experience (some of the players). I'm sure they'd of done much better if they kept playing.

Personally I've been playing with lots of rank0-5's lately. Fun at the time I guess. Invited some friends into group, but we didn't exactly do great. Now someone that judges team can say, some not so great players but that is no different from getting low end GVG players.

If you get the top end HA players that played balance, they're not bad at GVG either. And don't quote people like chop chop, he was never top end HA. He got R12 from r-spike, nothing player.

P.S Glyph of lesser is for GVG'ers and that's why they never hold halls loads even when they do play. Unless of course it's nub hour... Bring back the old favour system pl0x?